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Rigged character self-intersect
http://horde3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=209		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  blue [ 03.01.2008, 16:19 ]
Post subject:  Rigged character self-intersect
Hello,
I'm experimenting with Horde. Currently my main aim is to get a rigged character imported from Max.

When my character makes it into horde however his feet and hands now intersect his body.

Interestingly the exact same DAE works perfectly in Horde .11

Horde .11 (correct)

Image

Horde .13 (incorrect)

Image

I have not tried in Horde .12.

Does anyone know why this may happen?

What are the changes made to ColladaConv and the Horde source in between versions that may affect this?


Some more information:
    -I am exporting from Max. The character is fully rigged.

    -Both the characters hands and feet are incorrect, they both now intersect his body. Both are correct in Horde .11.

    -The feet and hands are rigged to the character as part of the same mesh. However they are not continous with the rest of the mesh.

    -It is difficult to know if some of the body is scaled incorrectly, or whether the translations are incorrect. However, comparing two images I believe it is just the translation that is incorrect. The feet however are more incorrect than the hands. It still may be the scale of the body is too large, but it doesn't look like it at first glance. If I translate the feet in the image above, down by 3 units in Horde, the images are almost identical.

    -The coordinates seem to have changed between Horde .11 and Horde .13. The character model needs to be rotated in Horde .11, but not .13.

    -All the translations, rotations and scales appear to be identical in the scene.xml's for both versions of the character.


I will continue to investigate this problem, but any help would be geatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean
Author:  marciano [ 04.01.2008, 15:40 ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the detailed problem information.

Could you please compare the scene graph files created by ColladaConv 0.11 and 0.13 to see if any of the parameters are different (scale or translation) or if there are some other differences? If that doesn't reveal anything it would of course be very helpful to know if the problem is already existing in 0.12. The version 0.12 is still available from here:

http://www.nextgen-engine.net/downloads/older/Horde3D SDK [0.12.0].zip

Such bugs are always bugging me ;) (especially if things were working in older versions) so I would really want to fix that for the next release.
Author:  blue [ 05.01.2008, 18:31 ]
Post subject: 
Hi Marciano,
I've tested this in version .12 also. It works correctly in version .12.

Comparing the two converted scene files, between version .12 and .13, there is no difference in any translation, rotation or scale.

The only diff that does show up I due I believe to this from the change log:

Quote:
Made it possible to attach meshes to joints; also updated Collada Converter to support this.


I believe this causes some of the meshes in .13 to live under a joint. These meshes sit outside the main rig hierarchy in .12. Aprt from this, they are identical. If it would be helpful I can send you the converted geo and scene files?

I believe the reason that it works correct in .11 and .12, is because the rigging information is being lost in some way. Although the character looks complete in all version, I think he is skinned correctly only in .13. If this is true then it is not necessarily a new bug, that used to work. It may simply be a bug with the skinning.

When I run the converter on the same DAE file in .12, I get this message for all 70 bones:

Warning: joint 'Bone1' used in skin controller not found

I am not playing any animation yet for the character so I can't say how well the rig works in any version.

I have brought the Horde Scene Editor up to date for .13. When I move bone positions in .13 it works correctly, but in .11 they do not move.

Hope this is helpful. Let me know your thoughts, or if there's anything I can do to help track this issue down.

Thanks,
Sean
Author:  marciano [ 07.01.2008, 00:55 ]
Post subject: 
Hi blue,

thanks for your commendable problem analysis!

It is still hard for me to tell what the problem is without having something to try out. I think you could help me best to track down the issue if you could send me the collada file (if that's ok for you).
Author:  marciano [ 24.01.2008, 03:14 ]
Post subject: 
I had a look at the collada file and tried to reimport it to 3d studio max. The self-intersection problem was also showing up there, so this is no Horde bug but probably a problem in ColladaMax. The older versions of ColladaConv ignored some parts of the scene hierarchy, but the 0.13 version is behaving correctly now.
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