Horde3D

Next-Generation Graphics Engine
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PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 10:11 
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Joined: 15.09.2010, 18:31
Posts: 53
Hello,
AFAIR I've been into computer security, but because I'm just a student, I could afford myself to change my domain into gamedev which I find better suited for me (both brain hemispheres and I'd like to create rather than constantly pointing others failures). I'd like to ask You for a roadmap in graphics programming education.

It's crucial for you to know, that I'm not complete newbie, so:
* I don't need to learn programming languages anymore (been mostly using asm,C,C++,Java,PHP etc. - now I'm looking towards D which is just great)
* I got basic IT designing knowledge which means structures and programming patterns are not my biggest concern (I've been learning electronics through pc's hardware to basic programming, network administration and then computer security on different levels - mostly low like protocols, OSes but web too - and currently some big systems designing thanks to java ee => many technical solutions)
* i'm learning 3d graphics programming opengl on the university but it wont help me much, because our lecturer is a maths professor (http://www.math.ucsd.edu/~sbuss/MathCG/index.html on this year)
* algorithms and maths are my weakest part, but I can manage to learn it myself with little help of my university)

What I'd like from You is to guide and hint me - from experienced graphics programmer position - in my project (which is very important for me) oriented manner:
- MMORPG with FPS and strategy appendices
- opensource business model
- OS independency
- language of 3d game client D
- my software choices
* horde3d graphics engine
* OpenSG scene graph (?)
* Bullet + DMM Freeware
* OpenAL

What's Your view on chosen solutions? Would You change something while sticking the general direction? Have you heard about any FLOSS AI solutions (on server side @NPC to mimic players or just for monsters). Yes, i know I'm very general about AI but it's not on top of my priorities right now, altough I'd be glad to hear something about that.

I'd like You to name Your favourite, most interesting or just worth learning algorithms on
- culling
- shading
- lighting
- postprocessing effects
- anything project related

You know, the main reason why I'm writing this post is my confusion in generally... graphics pipeline designing. There are many techniques but I can't manage to put them together to form them into one big and fast system (my game). I'd like to listen which of them are currently 'hot' in the meaning of performance, memory footprint, quality difference, preferred use cases (i.e. i liked inferred lighting described on this forum).

Don't describe them too much, I respect Your time highly. I'll find information about it and learn by myself. Just throw an entry with name and few words why you find it cool, it would be really helpful for me.

Interesting sites/books are welcome too.

Thanks a lot,
hopefuly I'll payback to horde3d community soon :)


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PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 12:50 
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Joined: 13.11.2007, 11:07
Posts: 1149
Location: Germany
Apart from all programming issues, I guess the biggest problem for a good game is the lack of good content (and maybe also good concepts). In contrast to most programmers, that tend to have time to do programming in their free time and publish the results to the community, designers seem to have less free time or less interest for creating good free content.

Don't take me wrong I know that there are free models, but a game needs a lot of models with a consistent style and thats a huge amount of work to do indeed.

I already thought about several demos that could be realized with Horde, e.g. a Golf Simulator driven by accelerometers of smart phones or the Wii together with the bullet physics engine integrated already in the GameEngine. That shouldn't be a big technical problem, but the graphical content is something I'm not able to create. Apart from that I also don't have the time anymore.


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PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 12:51 
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Joined: 15.06.2008, 11:21
Posts: 166
Location: Germany
Hm. Imho the most important thing to notice is that whatever you describe you want to do there, the graphics in anything MMO-like are the least difficult part. If you want to focus on graphics, do something else :)
Besides that, you have set high goals. I don't know whether I would choose DMM btw, bullet is already enough for most things.

From what you have mentioned, I find deferred lighting in general the most interesting part there, just because of the massive possibilities which come with it at quite low cost, even if the performance in quite some cases is not that great.

The last thing I found interesting in the web was http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/201 ... hting.html btw together with the post after it, even if that technique does not look as if it brings many advantages usually. What I am currently looking into are the various ways to render a good terrain, looking into the direction of virtual texturing etc (that's how I actually found that site).


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PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 20:01 
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Joined: 15.09.2010, 18:31
Posts: 53
Volker wrote:
Apart from all programming issues, I guess the biggest problem for a good game is the lack of good content (and maybe also good concepts). In contrast to most programmers, that tend to have time to do programming in their free time and publish the results to the community, designers seem to have less free time or less interest for creating good free content.

Don't take me wrong I know that there are free models, but a game needs a lot of models with a consistent style and thats a huge amount of work to do indeed.


I didn't said I'm going to make it alone :) Because I'm gonna be responsible for leading programming part of it, my main focus is programming. I got some friends who declared help with assets, experienced game masters, content developers (in meanings of plot) and audio enthusiasts but i won't call for any help until I'll be satisfied in code base. I know that making a game, even more - mmo game independently is a big challenge, that's why i wont bother anyone before i can realistically extrapolate amount of work being done to needs (which aren't technically too high in first few versions at least). There are few expectations to open source community and new university department of "New media art", because according to plan, committers are going to share financial benefits as well (don't ask me currently how, please - it's one of many ready-made ideas which are not true yet).
We've been thinking (more or less actively) about our game from like 8 years (i'm 22 btw.), so we got many concepts ready too. Plan is quite tight, and i can only do what's possible to make it real, then hope it'll work so You can see basic versions from us at horde3d showcase in like 2 years.

Lastly, as i said I'm not going to get any help or cooperations in coding or any other project related tasks until i'll make a decision "I'm learning and developing fast enough so i can handle my part of job, so the task is possible and going in the right way".

My question was about choosing right tools and getting some 3d graphics related advices, in form of points or terms that You think researching them could help me. Because I feel being wrongly understood I'll clarify that I'm not asking anyone to join me, I wouldn't even agree to that until i'll see that's possible and my skills are high enough. Now it isn't true, currently I'm asking for technical advices from people that know much much more than me about games and graphics.

phoenix64 wrote:
Hm. Imho the most important thing to notice is that whatever you describe you want to do there, the graphics in anything MMO-like are the least difficult part.
If you want to focus on graphics, do something else :)

Yes, the thing is - I don't want to focus on graphics because as you already read it i suck at this (yet :wink:). I'm just a newcomer in graphics field, but i need to make engine (i didn't really like crystalspace even if planeshift graphics would be currently satisfactory for me). I liked horde, and because of it i need to learn a bit about graphics. I'm completely OK with that, but it's not my goal, i don't think it's most important in games. I believe i am able to model a world, and my (or our) concepts are hopefully really good - that's the strenghts. There are no chance for people with low budget to compete with 'pro' developers in graphics.

phoenix64 wrote:
Besides that, you have set high goals. I don't know whether I would choose DMM btw, bullet is already enough for most things.

AFAIK rigid body of bullet and FEA of DMM are two things which don't exclude themselves (i might be wrong, as i already said I'm the 'noob-one' here :lol: ). The free and limited version of DMM would just give some flavour into the game.

phoenix64 wrote:
From what you have mentioned, I find deferred lighting in general the most interesting part there, just because of the massive possibilities which come with it at quite low cost, even if the performance in quite some cases is not that great.

The last thing I found interesting in the web was http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/201 ... hting.html btw together with the post after it, even if that technique does not look as if it brings many advantages usually. What I am currently looking into are the various ways to render a good terrain, looking into the direction of virtual texturing etc (that's how I actually found that site).

Sure, i'll reconsider deferred lighting. Any other slogans or interesting sources about 3d graphics for new-comer to learn?


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